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feh728
04-10-2010, 02:13 PM
This video on Youtube explained a lot from an antagonists standpoint on universal health care.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw&feature=player_embedded


What are your thoughts? Did this video miss any facts?:cool:

dibblejr
04-12-2010, 06:28 AM
In our current economic situation I believe there are more important issues to deal with. I guess now we will just have to wait an see how this plays out.

If the Gov. cant run the Social Security System and th Vetrans Administration what makes them able to handle the entire Nations Healthcare System?

If it isnt broke..............

First Socialized Healthcare next Socialism................

feh728
04-12-2010, 05:34 PM
If the Gov. cant run the Social Security System and th Vetrans Administration what makes them able to handle the entire Nations Healthcare System?

Don't forget about Medicare...

dibblejr
04-12-2010, 07:09 PM
MEDICARE is actually a part of the Social Security System. Slowly but surely the funds are being depleated from the entire Social Security System.

MSG Glenn
04-13-2010, 04:29 AM
One of the "hidden" or at least not talked about topics is the lessening of Medicare benefits when universal health care kicks in. Many docs will no longer accept Medicare patients because as it is a doc well bill, say $100, Medicare allows $75 & pays $50. The supplementary insurance sometimes will pay a whole $10 or maybe nothing. My GP has told me flat out that if he takes no new Medicare patients & the government forces him to he'll either get out of medicine or move to another country. He'll keep me on regardless but he's surely not accepting new Medicare or Tricare patients.

Tricare might go by the wayside. Any insurance or health plan that has a governement connection will be affected. Too many people will be eating out of the same trough & there will be less to go around. A serviceman will still receive the same care but his dependents won't & once he retires he'll see his coverage reduced. At that time the VA will be his source of care & that soon will also become very crowded & health care will have to be rationed.

tyler
04-13-2010, 06:07 AM
First Socialized Healthcare next Socialism.

But, of course you are aware that the United States has maintained several socialized reforms over its existence that are of great value to the American community. Medicare is socialized medicine, Fire Departments are a socialized program, public libraries, the public school system, the US Armed Forces, The National Park Service, and the list goes on. Despite maintaining several social reforms for the benefit of the public over several several decades and more, why is providing healthcare the breaking point that sends us spiraling into the pit of no return?

MSG Glenn
04-13-2010, 06:30 AM
At this time Medicare is going broke as are some other Federal health care plans. There can be no fix other than a higher user fee & taxes. I've seen my VA benefits erode more each year. If a national system is overloaded how will it be when everyone is on it? It will have top come down to rationing. My Canadian relatives think we're nuts for getting into something like that. They started out in the same way & now the system is broke with a long waiting list even for people suffering from life-threatening illnesses. Their taxes are off the chart. The trouble with any government program is the amount of bureaucracy involved along with the vast increase in paperwork.

That brings me to mind of the last armed security job I had protecting a factory that made sensitive equipment for the military. The amount of paperwork I had to submit each month was staggering. Each production department had the same problem & a lot of money was wasted in the process.

SniperAlpha1
04-13-2010, 07:36 AM
But, of course you are aware that the United States has maintained several socialized reforms over its existence that are of great value to the American community. Medicare is socialized medicine, Fire Departments are a socialized program, public libraries, the public school system, the US Armed Forces, The National Park Service, and the list goes on. Despite maintaining several social reforms for the benefit of the public over several several decades and more, why is providing healthcare the breaking point that sends us spiraling into the pit of no return?

Because the state of these programs are dismal. I assume that due to your occupation, you're around my age. I don't know if you've started working yet, but if so, you have already started to pay into the Social Security program. You will work for 45 years...scratch that, looks like the new retirement age is going to be 68 or 70, make that 50 give or take a few; so you'll take a portion out to put towards Social Security and do you know how much you or I or your buddies are going to see? Zilch.

It will be a miracle of our parents get their full amount. This is how well the American Bureaucracy runs these social programs. Imagine the damage they'll do to an industry as large as healthcare. Did you watch the video? I know it was silly but those guys know exactly what was going on. We're going to have rationed care, long waits, ridiculous standard of care (We have the pinnacle of care in the world currently, did you know that?) I'm willing to pay for the best. Most Americans are. That's what makes this country great! Self Reliance, personal responsibility! The Constitution is very clear that government should be as small and non-intrusive as possible. We are willing to pay for the best when it comes to something as vital as healthcare. And I don't want to hear the 30 percent of uninsured Americans getting the shaft argument. You would not believe the percentage of a hospitals overall care being pro bona. They don't turn away people without insurance. That's a violation of their Hippocratic oath. Why fix something that isn't broken? This is just the Administration's way of getting more people dependent on the government so that they can cement power and receive guaranteed votes, the same ways the Democratic party keeps power in the inner-cities.

feh728
04-13-2010, 08:19 AM
:D:D

/golfclap @ SniperAlpha1. Excellent argument.

Dave.West
04-13-2010, 11:20 AM
I'm currently a Health Insurance agent, and have been licensed and soliciting life and health insurance for over 5 years.

I remember how the campaign promises were that you and I deserve the same insurance as our Senators and Presidents, and that we all deserve "Accessible, Affordable, and Portable" health insurance. Unfortunately, this new legislation is having several adverse effects.

1.) Do you know that name brand prescriptions will be allowed to keep their patent for 12 years now, instead of 5-7 years? That means that generics will be delayed and affordability will once again be side-stepped.

2.) Insurance companies and Pharmaceutical companies will begin to pay taxes, to the tune of over $80 billion. Once again, that doesn't make things more affordable.

3.) Major Medical companies have just tightened their underwriting, going from 40 declinable (on average) conditions to over 200. That takes care of the accesible part.

4.) Half of the funding will come from Medicare (not what our Senators and Presidents have) and half of the administration will come from Medicaid (which most Dr.'s / Specialists won't take.) Also keep in mind that they just screwed around with the funding for Medicare and barely kept the Dr.'s happy.

5.) By mandating that you have to provide the best benefits to the highest risk of people, they're repeating the sub-prime Housing Crisis all over again. Can you imagine buying house insurance will you watch it burn?

6.) They're putting the IRS in charge. As costs skyrocket, like they have in MA, watch them hold your tax returns if you haven't had your annual physical or are over your BMI for the 3rd year in a row!

dibblejr
04-13-2010, 02:15 PM
^^ I agree. Also they say that the average Canadian lives 3 years longer due to the Healthcare System. I would rather die at 97 than to burden my children for another three years.

If we keep losing our jobs at the rate they are going there will be no one to pay all of those tax increases. Yes I know that the goverment says "jobs were created last month", however most of thos jobs are temp. Pretty soon the Millionaires will only be thousandaires and then who is gonna pay for Obamacare? With the little money that we make the Medicare, Medicade and Obamacare systems will put us in an out of control spiral to complete Socialism.

Just remember you heard it here.

MSG Glenn
04-14-2010, 03:34 AM
I think the average Canadian lives longer because of a healthier lifestyle. For one thing the air is better. According to my Canadian relatives we've lost at least 2 family members to having to wait too long until a procedure became available. I think a distant cousin died from cancer because he was due to get treatment almost ONE YEAR LATER!!!! I don't know if it was radiation or chemo therapy or a combination. Each time he went to the "clinic" he saw a different doctor & each doctor had a different method of treatment. He was starting from scratch each time he went in.

Now if any of the relatives I'm in touch with need medical care & there's a waiting list they come down to the States for treatment. If we get the same system they have then they won't have anywhere to go to receive adequate care.

They think we're nuts!

bradyc87
04-14-2010, 10:27 AM
I think the average Canadian lives longer because of a healthier lifestyle. For one thing the air is better. According to my Canadian relatives we've lost at least 2 family members to having to wait too long until a procedure became available. I think a distant cousin died from cancer because he was due to get treatment almost ONE YEAR LATER!!!! I don't know if it was radiation or chemo therapy or a combination. Each time he went to the "clinic" he saw a different doctor & each doctor had a different method of treatment. He was starting from scratch each time he went in.

Now if any of the relatives I'm in touch with need medical care & there's a waiting list they come down to the States for treatment. If we get the same system they have then they won't have anywhere to go to receive adequate care.

They think we're nuts!

exactly.. my mom was just up in canada for work and they were talking about the new healthcare stuff and all the Canadians thought anyone in the US that actually wants to change the system is crazy.. their wait times for everything are ridiculous.. they dont even bother going to the doctor for things like a cold or the flu because its not worth sitting in the waiting room for 2 hours

Nightflyer
04-14-2010, 03:31 PM
exactly.. my mom was just up in canada for work and they were talking about the new healthcare stuff and all the Canadians thought anyone in the US that actually wants to change the system is crazy.. their wait times for everything are ridiculous.. they dont even bother going to the doctor for things like a cold or the flu because its not worth sitting in the waiting room for 2 hours

It's worst then you think..The canucks come here for serious healthcare when push comes to shove. The brits in UK wait and wait..

Nightflyer
04-14-2010, 04:09 PM
My junior A hockey teammates ( Alex and Matt) stayed with me and my family during the Christmas break a few years back.. Matt who is from Trois (Three ) Riviere Quebec went to see his mom in New York who was in town for treatment..They have a horse farm in Texas so they have money and knew exactly where to go for the fastest and best care for cancer treatment.

...just saying