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Short880
08-14-2010, 04:45 PM
Just wondering what everyone thinks. It's disrespectful in my opinion. Even if the people who build it there truly don't mean it in any offense at all. Do you believe that morality is actually going to pressure our standing on founding laws? Because It seems to me everyone is trying for this to be shut down but religious freedom is what our country was built on. You cannot tell someone in america you cannot build something do just because of religion right? I never get into discussion because usually people go off the first bias thing they hear. But I've research and really am wondering what everyone thinks about this.

No crazy arguments please. Just discussion lol. I've seen this topic get crazy.

SniperAlpha1
08-14-2010, 06:15 PM
Well, it's certainly a sticky wicket.

Freedom of Religion is not a part of the debate. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." The Constitution is very limited in its scope on religion. It clearly states that Congress shall not endorse the establishment of any religion. Contrarily, the Constitution is clear that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of it i.e.: no law banning religious practice. The simple explanation is that the "Freedom of Religion" argument has no place in this controversy.

The Government, had they denied the request to build the Mosque, would not have been guilty of unconstitutionally denying rights. Should they incriminate an entire religion under the umbrella argument of "Islam killed these 3,000 Americans?" Hmmmm, that's a bit trickier. It's important to note that that many American Muslims were killed on September 11th, 2001. However, the threat of Radical Islamic Terrorism grows daily. These cells grow in numbers as the Middle East and Near Asia become more Westernized and the mullahs and Ayatollahs and Clerics descend on the satanic allure of "American decadence." This isn't necessarily a problem if the majority wasn't a silent one. The most vocal group within the Islamic faith is that of the hard-liners: The Whahabbists, the Taliban, the Grand Ayatollah and those who's sole purpose on Allah's green Earth is to kill the infidel. That means the building of a Mosque, which historically celebrated the conquering of a new land, would be an unbelievably invigorating and inspiring morale victory for those who are hell-bent on the West and more specifically America falling to its knees. Do we want to signify the slaughter of 3,000 innocents as a victory for these sub-humans? Even though the founder and and the staff that work there may be just as innocent as those who were killed, the Mosque itself as an image would be seen around the world as a victory for those who practice a violent Islam.

We can debate if the hard-liners pervert the religion or those who practice peacefully in union with all people are those who perverted the original message, but we have to look at the far-reaching ramifications of our actions, including this one. We are still at War, even if the current Administration is in denial and just calls our War on Terror "Overseas Contingencies" and Terrorism "Man-made disasters." We need to act accordingly to the laws dictated by the victors of war.

CWO Sharkey
08-15-2010, 12:26 AM
This hits home since I am from New York City and was activated due to 9/11 but I believe in our Constitution and sworn to defend it. Freedom of religion is a right shared by all Americans. It is the First Amendment in our Bill of Rights.

I don't believe that since muslims were the ones who were a part of 9/11 that all muslims should pay for that. When I was a teenager growing up in Manhattan and The Bronx; I got robbed twice by African-Americans. Should I hate or think that all African-Americans are bad and thieves? Should I personally have a bias towards them and hinder and punish all due to the actions of those two? Its like saying that all African-Americans should hate this country and whites due to the hundreds of years of slavery and atrocities.

Yes, I understand for the families of the victims. This is a very sensitive subject but I agree with the POTUS on this and I think it will be good if a Mosque is constructed by ground zero. We all need to heal and move on.

The attached pic is when I was doing a morning drive up Manhattan and passing the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges. To the left of this shot, the towers could have been seen clearly. But no longer.....

A#1Mom
08-15-2010, 09:39 AM
Hello all! I agree with Sniper on this one Chief. And you said it very well too Sniper. I am against the building of a mosque in that area. I believe that all Americans have their right to live in a free and peaceful way. I believe in Religious Freedom also. I recognise the difference between practicing your religious beliefs & Religious Extremism.. I live in the NJ metro area and volunteer at HUMC hospital here. I recall that day vividly! I volunteer on tuesdays & 09-11-11 was a Tuesday we'll all never forget! But I'd still be very upset if a Mosque were built in that area right now. I believe the Mosque would only open old wounds. It would not help the healing process! I did go in that day. You must remember what it was like around this area, Chief? I went home, 4 hrs later than normal, to 2 very angry teenage sons, the eldest of whom later enlisted in the Army like many others. That attack on our country was one of the reasons my son enlisted. My eldest sons' best friend was on the local Rescue squad. At 18yrs. old he decided to go with his squad to ground zero & help look for survivors. I answered phones at the hospital on that Thurday, and spoke with family & friends who were seeking information on their missing loved ones. We've had to go foward. But, it still would hurt too many people, especially in this area! By the way, does anyone remember that there is supposed to be "Separation" of church & state in this country! Maybe the politicians should stop trying to be politically correct, and stay out of this one! A mosque in that area would definitely be looked at as a victory by these Extremists, and the U. S. would be giving in again!

CWO Sharkey
08-15-2010, 10:01 AM
I totally understand and respect your opinion mom. I am just saying that if any tragedy that happened that was caused by a group that sided with a certain religion; I wouldnt have problem if members of that group wanted to build a place of worship in honor of what happened.

Yes, we can look at history of certain tragic events (December 7th, Holocaust, Hiroshima) and wonder if the nationalities responsible were to place a memorial or place of worship at those locations. But in those examples; there is no religious affliation.

Trinity Church by Ground Zero is a landmark. If a Jewish Synagogue wanted to be built, I be for it as well. Now if the builders want to retract because of the feelings of the families then that is understandable as well. But if they want to build a place of worship; I think it will be ok to do. And I say this as a person that has friends that lost relatives in the attacks and fought in the wars as a result of it.

Here is an interesting article...

Muhammad Ali Hasan: Why I Support the Ground Zero Mosque (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/muhammad-ali-hasan/why-i-support-the-ground_b_667764.html)

Why I Support the Ground Zero Mosque

As an American, a Republican leader, and a practicing Muslim, the issue of building a mosque near New York's Ground Zero is of natural interest to me. For the record, I deeply support building this mosque. To my fellow conservative leaders who say they are against this project, yet claim to not be bigoted, I have news for you: you are a bigot.

Let's examine the facts: the Ground Zero mosque is not just a mosque, it is the Cordoba House, a community center that will provide meeting rooms, art exhibition galleries, a swimming pool, movie theaters, and bookstores, all in the heart of New York City, and all made freely available to the public. According to the Cordoba House website, the motivation is to create a center that will be "promoting integration, tolerance of difference and community cohesion through arts and culture," in addition to "providing a space for all New Yorkers to enjoy." As a matter of fact, around $100 million is being spent on all the amenities above, all for the sake of turning this distressed business district into a hub of intellect and encouraged tolerance.

Shame on Republican leaders for criticizing such a fine project. After all, I believe many of these conservatives were the same leaders who supported the bailouts of 2008 and turned blind eyes to the book-cooking that kept companies like Enron in business?

Perhaps the founders of the Cordoba House should abandon the project, convert to Christianity, and invest their $100 million into a more modest building, closed to the public, that will instead house an oil company that cooks its books to reflect fake profits? History dictates that the same conservatives criticizing the Cordoba House project would probably give this new oil company a large bailout -- provided that the good oilmen are white and Christian.

After all, Rick Lazio, a Republican leader running for Governor in New York, has called for an "investigation" of where this $100 million is coming from, with no basis other than the good donors being Muslim. The Village Voice uncovered Lazio's former profession, as a head in JPMorgan Chase's "lobbying unit," where he collected a bonus of over $1 million from the company while it collected billions in TARP funds -- this, despite the fact that his normal salary was around $325,000. Surely, if every entity was investigated for questionable investments, Lazio would be one of the first to hand us American taxpayers a check for $1 million.

Equally frustrating are calls that this project would hurt our collective spirits. As Governor Sarah Palin said on Twitter, "it stabs hearts." Stabs hearts? Since when did America become so wimpy that our conservative leaders need to protect our fragile collective ego? And, for the record, Governor Palin is one of few GOP leaders who has often promoted Islam as a religion of peace, which is why her recent twitter has 'stabbed' my heart (I was a supporter, having donated to SarahPAC).

I just cannot call Palin a "bigot," as she has said too many good things about Islam -- as has Newt Gingrich, who endorsed me during both of my political campaigns in Colorado. Nonetheless, their recent comments are not only heartbreaking, but also a further example of the GOP's brightest minds bartering thoughtful statesmanship for hurtful pandering.

But most importantly, this idea that Islam is some foreign entity that cannot cooperate with American culture is completely false. Thomas Jefferson carried a copy of the Quran in his library and is believed to have sought guidance from it. A tribute to Prophet Muhammad adorns the walls of our Supreme Court, as he is recognized as one of the world's greatest judges. And of course, a high percentage of the Africans who were enslaved by us were Muslim, but forced to convert to Christianity upon capture -- yes, I'm sure that this incident also 'stabbed' some hearts. Regardless of hurt feelings, one fact always remains -- Islam is as deeply sewn into the fabric of American history as the Confederate flag -- and that will never change.

I personally know many of the leaders behind the Cordoba House, and they are great Americans, whose good intentions reflect the idea that, while radical Islamists may have destroyed the World Trade Center, peaceful Muslims will now rebuild it, giving us a destination that is open to all, with tolerance and love as its goal.

Lastly, I am deeply proud to be an American, with a proud, personal history of denouncing terrorism, including my founding of Muslims For Bush. However, what truly reeks within this debate is not the shadow of bigotry, but rather, the cloak of dishonesty. In the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, where I was born and raised, it is believed that your word -- your honesty -- is everything that makes you a man.

My fellow conservative leaders, please quit lying. If you are against the mosque, then call yourself a bigot and give us the gift of an honest dialogue, the kind we carry on so proudly here in America.

Yes, you will be a bigot -- but at least you will be a man.

CWO Sharkey
08-15-2010, 10:06 AM
Daly thinks that not building will be giving into extremism. Click the red link.

It's an emotional issue, but blocking the Ground Zero mosque is just what the terrorists want (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/08/15/2010-08-15_its_salt_in_my_pals_wounds_but_if_we_block_plan _the_terrorists_win.html)


The separation of church and state relates to government; in this case its about constitutional freedoms. Now if the state wants to block the mosque, then where is the separation of church and state in that regard? No where because you will be for it in this sense.

CWO Sharkey
08-15-2010, 10:31 AM
This guy looks like Eminen

YouTube - New Yorkers confront Muslims in front of Mosque - From "7... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9KpuffLcL4&feature=channel)

A#1Mom
08-15-2010, 03:27 PM
And I respect all of your opinions as well! I am not very good with words-numbers are more my thing. So forgive me if I can't get my opinion across as well as some of you or if what I say comes across wrong. I simply agree that l building a Mosque/Cordobe House/Community Center at this particular site, and at this time is disrespectful & hurtful to many people from the Tri-State area. If it weren't there would not be So Much controversy over it. Nor would so many people be protesting it. For me it is the location that I disapprove of & as the question was asked "How Do You Feel About It", I am only voicing my opinion. I did read the article you posted Chief. It is a very interesting piece. I understand the writers point of view, but disagree with calling anyone, like myself, who disagrees with building the mosque at this site, a bigot. I know I am not a bigot and neither are any of the people I know who also don't want a mosque at this site. I did say that religious freedom for all is a right for all in this country. I do believe this. In my reference to the separation of Church and State, I was simply stating that politics and politicians should stay out of the controversy. Thankfully, our government cannot, and does not have the right to approve or disapprove of the situation. Therefore the politicians, other than the NY city ones should stay out of this. This includes Palin & Obama. This is just my opinion. Thanks for listening.

MPclk2006
08-15-2010, 05:53 PM
I believe in freedom of speech and religion and all the great things we get by being in this country, but I think building that right on ground zero is like a big kick in the you know what, whoever came up with this is trying to make a statement. I hope it does not go through.

Short880
08-15-2010, 07:06 PM
Therefore the politicians, other than the NY city ones should stay out of this. This includes Palin & Obama. This is just my opinion. Thanks for listening.

Funny that this is key to the situation. Since I have already heard multiple people say that "Obama is trying to build a mosque in New York". I hate how ignorant a lot of Americans are. Talking about topics after hearing briefly for 2 minutes about it on CNN or FOX or another network that mostly has motives to falsely use propaganda. I study political issues but cannot ever "debate" with anyone topics because I feel they are magically pulling "facts" out of the personal motive tree. Maybe it should be a law that to quote a "fact" you must have your documented source with you.

My personal thoughts on the mosque are that if America/Congress/New York Commissioners stops the process it will question our dedication to our founding fathers rights. I mean how I see it there is no way If the building is not allowed to be built any party will be able to write it off as we did it for any other reason than what religious belief the building owners have... If It came off as respect or morality I would say this is totally wrong for this to happen. But under American citizen rights we have no place to say anything. But at the same time If the Muslim community is building this building as a respectful addition to New York city and mean it as a Tribute to 9/11 than that would make a lot of people really seem like assholes huh? If and or buts though. My main point of view is the legal fact that I believe there is nothing we can do to a american citizen in this situation to stop that building being built. You can argue it/protest it but overall it would go agaisnt what America backbone is built on to do something about it. Maybe our constitution should be questioned in such a different world we live in compared to it's birth. Just like with Arizona and the 14th amendment you know. That would most likely cause a war inside America though. So that is not a possible option. Paper holds us together. To start fresh would.. holy crap. We possible would nuke ourselves.

DerekB
08-15-2010, 07:08 PM
It would be a complete insult. Nuff said

CWO Sharkey
08-15-2010, 07:33 PM
There is already a mosque by ground zero that has been there before the attacks. The new mosque wouldn't be inside the area of where the towers stood but about a couple of blocks away; where there are other religious place of workship (e.g. trinity church). Muslims prayer at the Pentagon where there are services given by an Iman. So that is ok and this isn't? Regardless if you think its a slap in the face to the victims; its their constitutional right to do so. It wasn't Islam the religion that attacked us on 9/11.

StayFrosty
08-15-2010, 07:51 PM
There is already a mosque by ground zero that has been there before the attacks. The new mosque wouldn't be inside the area of where the towers stood but about a couple of blocks away; where there are other religious place of workship (e.g. trinity church). Muslims prayer at the Pentagon where there are services given by an Iman. So that is ok and this isn't? Regardless if you think its a slap in the face to the victims; its their constitutional right to do so. It wasn't Islam the religion that attacked us on 9/11.

Chief: the one question I'd like to have answered - and it really will direct my response to the whole situation - What's the rationale behind them selecting THIS site? If there's a valid reason, no other location, maybe they've held the land for years and never moved on it, etc. Then I'll throw some water on the fire. But as of yet I haven't seen any reason present other than a strong attitude of "f*** you, we're doing it because we can".

I'm not one to jump on the "it's a slap in the face" bandwagon, but the lack of a rational and coherent reason being presented to the public has me raising my eyebrows. No, you're not *required* to present one, but if you've got one, why haven't you? And frankly, with a lack of a reason to think otherwise, my instinct is to go with Occam's Razor, and just assume that the site was selected to piss people off.

My two pesos.

CWO Sharkey
08-15-2010, 08:06 PM
StayFrosty, that is the paradox. This isnt a trial in which the burden of proof lies on the defense; its obviously a difference of opinion. Your view it as a big F in the face; instead of muslims trying to put something positive on this. You making the assumption that the individuals that want to build the mosque have bad intentions because they are muslims. Will you feel the same if Jews wanted to build a synagogue on the site? No, because you identify the attack to the muslim religion. The rationale is mentioned in many pro-mosque articles; like the one I posted above. But people who are against it; do not accept the rationale or think its a smoke screen and the big F U that you had stated.

What are we to say to Muslim-Americans? Hey, you can come worship in our country as long as its not by ground zero but other religions can? Again, there are mosques all over NYC and one that has been around ground zero for years.

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/40-year-old-masjid-manhattan-caught-ground-zero-mosque-debate-2649279.html (http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/40-year-old-masjid-manhattan-caught-ground-zero-mosque-debate-2649279.html)

http://wonkette.com/417009/attention-bigots-there-is-already-a-mosque-near-the-wtc-site (http://wonkette.com/417009/attention-bigots-there-is-already-a-mosque-near-the-wtc-site)

Again, play my video

YouTube - New Yorkers confront Muslims in front of Mosque - From "7... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9KpuffLcL4&feature=channel)

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/08/muslims-infiltrate-pentagon-judeo-christian-civilization-collapses/61135/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/08/muslims-infiltrate-pentagon-judeo-christian-civilization-collapses/61135/)

Anyway, opinion is how you view the situation and that is why I have mine. Again, I understand the other sides (the ones against the mosque) reasoning; which is anger or hatred towards the muslim extremists and tying it to anything muslim.

So I have shown that a mosque has always existed by ground zero and muslims pray at the pentagon; so what is the big deal with this?

papachop
08-15-2010, 09:12 PM
Much ado about nothing. I'm typically pretty conservative, but I think the neocons taking this and turning it into such a big deal is pretty annoying. It's a mosque near Ground Zero - big deal. We in this country have a long history of respecting religion - if I recall my elementary history, it's what brought people to this country to begin with. The O'Reilly\whoever camp turning this into such a sh*tstorm is just a political football.

MPclk2006
08-16-2010, 04:40 AM
If its "around" ground zero then I dont see a problem, I honestly did not read an article on it so all I saw was "mosque on ground zero" and I know it wasnt that religion that attacked us, just extremists that practice that religion...building one ON ground zero would anger a lot of people...

MSG Glenn
08-16-2010, 04:41 AM
Muslims have had a tradition that dates back thousands of years - they always build a mosque at the location of their conquests.

SniperAlpha1
08-16-2010, 04:23 PM
Much ado about nothing. I'm typically pretty conservative, but I think the neocons taking this and turning it into such a big deal is pretty annoying. It's a mosque near Ground Zero - big deal. We in this country have a long history of respecting religion - if I recall my elementary history, it's what brought people to this country to begin with. The O'Reilly\whoever camp turning this into such a sh*tstorm is just a political football.

I'm all for the Constitution and the adjoined Bill of Rights, but we have to look at the long-term implications of building so near to the site. Now I'm a Goldwater Conservative (you can even call me a semi-libertarian) but not a "neo-con" as used in the pejorative sense, since in truth Neo-Conservativism is merely the belief in spreading liberty through economic and military means, not an uber-conservative as the term has come to mean. However, I can't support this while we continue to fight terrorism. Especially since Hamas wants construction of the Mosque to go through.

Hamas nod for Ground Zero mosque (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hamas_nod_for_gz_mosque_cSohH9eha8sNZMTDz0VVPI)

I think somebody earlier stated that not building would be giving into the Extremism that perpetrated the attack. Hamas is not above using innocents as cover and concealment and nothing seems to get them more hot and bothered than lobbing rockets into Israel.

StayFrosty
08-16-2010, 05:28 PM
StayFrosty, that is the paradox. This isnt a trial in which the burden of proof lies on the defense; its obviously a difference of opinion. Your view it as a big F in the face; instead of muslims trying to put something positive on this. You making the assumption that the individuals that want to build the mosque have bad intentions because they are muslims. Will you feel the same if Jews wanted to build a synagogue on the site?

Yeah it's gotta be racial... [/sarc]

No, I just inherently distrust anyone who starts doing weird shit like this and then starts ducking normal questions. Yes, the burden is on the prosecution here, but the lack ofan actual explanation for the site selection is absolutely deafening. The pre-existing mosques are meaningless. Right or wrong, as of 9/11, most Americans will identify the attacks and Ground Zero with Islam. I'm not using that as a source of argument, but in light of that, the question remains unanswered - why did you choose this site? It could be dozens of reasons, but all that comes back is "if you question this, you're a racist".

I could give a flying fuck which culture's running this - when you take actions that are likely to provoke highly sensitive issues in the culture that you're surrounded by (we're not talking about a small fraction of the population here... it's right in the middle of the city that was attacked), it's probably a good idea (even if not required) to have a rational explanation on hand. Playing the diversity card in any of these cases is a load of crap.

DerekB
08-16-2010, 05:33 PM
Great point msg. This is not an arguement about rights it's an arguement about what's right to do. Why can they not find another location for that mosque? What is so important to the people who want to build on that location. The only thing I can think of is that they want to use it to make point.

DerekB
08-16-2010, 05:45 PM
Rauf is also supposed to a moderate imam but won't say that Hamas Is a terrorist group? Cmon now! He also won't say where the money is coming from to build the mosque. Hmmm let me think Saudi Arabia maybe? Same place that funded bin laden and his attack on 9/11. To say they aren't trying to make a statement one would have to be blind

MSG Glenn
08-17-2010, 03:30 AM
I had heard that there was a Greek Orthodox church that was near ground zero & was completely destroyed. The church still owns the property. They were denied permission to rebuild.

What's going on? Appeasement? Favoritism? (??!!??). Why one & not the other? I have too many questions to just chalk it up to freedom of religion.

CWO Sharkey
08-17-2010, 04:31 AM
I didnt hear that. Send the link Top. Hey, they allowed some strip and adult clubs to operate right by it. Nobody is sounding off about that lol.

But any religious place of worship should be built if it applies with building and city guidelines.

MSG Glenn
08-17-2010, 07:03 AM
After reading the article & not just hearing the version over the radio it turns out that the Church is still negotiating with the Port Authority over where to build that added to the negotiations with the builders. They weren't outright denied permission to rebuild but just at their old property site.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html?pagewanted=1&n=Top/Reference/Times Topics/People/B/Bagli, Charles V&_r=1

I'm sure there are money problems involved, too, something that Muslims don't appear to have. There are a lot more of them than Greek Orthodox & the two don't get along with each other very well from what I've heard.

So I stand corrected about the outright denial of permission to rebuild.

I still have questions as to the motive of building a Mosque at that site especially in light of the fact that a mosque is always built at the site of Muslim conquests, the Dome of the Rock being the most notable.

MSG Glenn
08-17-2010, 07:13 AM
Here is one of the sources that claim mosque building at sites of conquests -

YouTube - Of Mosques and Men: Reflections on the Ground Zero Mosque (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxFzFIDbKpg)

Of course it's just one side of it but still thought-provoking.

CWO Sharkey
08-17-2010, 09:18 AM
Its just an opinion and I saw those photos a long time ago. Again, its about this

Olbermann: There is no ?Ground Zero Mosque? - msnbc tv - Countdown with Keith Olbermann - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38730223/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/)

Rachel Maddow Show (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#38731550)

Rachel Maddow Show (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#38731498)

CWO Sharkey
08-17-2010, 09:21 AM
After reading the article & not just hearing the version over the radio it turns out that the Church is still negotiating with the Port Authority over where to build that added to the negotiations with the builders. They weren't outright denied permission to rebuild but just at their old property site.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html?pagewanted=1&n=Top/Reference/Times Topics/People/B/Bagli, Charles V&_r=1

I'm sure there are money problems involved, too, something that Muslims don't appear to have. There are a lot more of them than Greek Orthodox & the two don't get along with each other very well from what I've heard.

So I stand corrected about the outright denial of permission to rebuild.

I still have questions as to the motive of building a Mosque at that site especially in light of the fact that a mosque is always built at the site of Muslim conquests, the Dome of the Rock being the most notable.

Its a separate issue since the Port Authority owns that property vice the location of the mosque which is private property. The whole World Trade Center was under Port Authority control.

Nightflyer
08-17-2010, 05:41 PM
The Iman is backing down and working to relocate at a different site.. He's willing to meet with Gov Dave Patterson to work out a deal by friday. Say what you want to say about Gov Patterson but he showed Leadership on this one. The President's speech and the outreach from the Muslim community that doesn't belive in heavy Sharia law helped too. It's a huge story in NYC and across the nation.

There was alot of pissed off people 70% of the nation. All the parties came together to work a deal out. I'm glad it's over..

Then I hear that Isreal has a three day window to hit Iran before the Russians supply the fuel. After the window closes and Isreal decides to hit the reactor afterwards, the fall out of radioactive emissions could reach the Sea and water supply. I also heard, that Isreal hit two other power plants before in the past. Both times they hit the power plants it was before any fuel was added. I forget the names of the two other countries..Here we go again..Hang on..


Night

SniperAlpha1
08-17-2010, 06:09 PM
I forget the names of the two other countries..

Well one of those countries who had their Nuclear Facility was Iraq. I think Israel was secretly wishing that we'd do the dirty work, but we'd never see this administration make a decision like that. The world cannot let an irresponsible country (and the argument can be made that it's a rogue state) like Iran become a Nuclear Power. Only a fool, no offense to anyone, would believe that the Grand Ayatollah would use these plants for Energy purposes only. The Iranians have been salivating over weapons-grade plutonium ever since the Shah was overthrown.

Exo1
08-29-2010, 08:14 AM
On the Mosque, its not suprising me to that it has turned political with everybody in the US giving their 2c, which is fine... What is outrageous to me is Hamas having the gaul to start chucking around commentary about something which has NOTHING to do with them... They are a terrorist organisation that has the Gaza strip, nothing more!!.. I cant say that a mosque shouldnt be there, but I would say that Muslims need to show the same sensitivity to non muslims in NYC that has being shown to them there and all over the free world... NYC has being very good to them despite 911 and they need to recriprocate in comprimise... which is what I understand is happening... (how is another story)...

Luddite
10-27-2010, 05:47 PM
FWIW I am a backward, gun toting redneck from Alabama and I think they, and anyone else, should be allowed to build a temple anywhere they want.

papachop
10-27-2010, 08:56 PM
FWIW I am a backward, gun toting redneck from Alabama and I think they, and anyone else, should be allowed to build a temple anywhere they want.

I agree entirely. As a conservative gun-toter in Minnesota. ;)