Thread: Pistol

Smith and Wesson M&P in .40S&W. Multiple reasons (in no particular order):

1. Adjustable backstraps. Fits hand sizes for everyone from a 100lb female to a 240lb lifter.
2. External safety available (make the Big Army happy)
3. Made in the USA
4. Proven design in use by over 250 law enforcement agencies
5. Easy takedown

My choice for general issue would be the HK45c, which is being used by the SEALs as the Mk24 pistol (too new to make the Wikipedia article, apparently).

Reasons include;

- Large caliber has the best terminal ballistics for FMJ ammo (until the US wakes up and makes JHP standard issue - then the 230 grain .45 JHP 'flying ashtray' will dominate)
- O-ring lockup and polygonal rifling result in match grade accuracy
- Capable of firing the .45 super cartridge (up to a 50% increase in kinetic energy over the .45 ACP) when the mission calls for it

I think HK is a good choice, too, Doc. And by all means get rid of that FMJ rule! Hollow points are much safer for nearby innocents. Less of a chance for a ricochet, less of a chance of a through & through hitting someone standing behind the target. They also kill more efficiently. We can have frag grenades, bombs that through all kinds of killing debris around but we cant have HPs.

On a side note :

Doc-

Have you ever shot Federal Tactical bonded HST ammo in any caliber? I was able to get a box "for LEO use only" of .40 cal 180 gr. It's not illegal to own but Federal makes it for PDs & if there are overruns & leftovers it's available in gun shops. I also got a box for my son. I have yet to shoot it. It's quite expensive but the next time I'm at the range I might shoot a mag to make sure I can stay on target, etc. I found that "HST" means "High Shock Two" . It expands to twice the size (.80 cal.) If it's good enough for Police Officers why isn't it good enough for Soldiers?

Originally Posted by LoneStarMedic

AMEN MSG! I suppose it's already been touched upon, BUT to make this thread more interesting, what does everyone think the Army's new issued sidearm SHOULD be??

Not being a smartass, but I would say one that works reliably and has a .40 calibre + kick to it. Military use for a side arm is based on the ability to drop somebody with as few shots as possible in a pinch but not have rounds getting into backgrounds via a bad guy and dropping innocents.... Theres many sidearms that fit that bill.. but none of them are perfect... external safety is and always should be part of the design specs for any new pistol. I think companies in the US and Germany have many good weapons but I cannot name a weapon that I would put forward as the perfect replacement....

I'd say the .40 cal is a good round. Fits nicely between 9MM & .45 cal. With .45s if you want a high capacity mag the grips can get a little too wide for those with small hands.

LT Papachop's suggestion of the M&P 40 is a very good one but in my opinion the Army has to get away from Berrettas & get something reliable made in the USA. Even an M&P 45 would be a good choice. Many PDs are switching from the Austrian Glocks to M&Ps & so far I've heard nothing bad about them. Some of the newer models of Glocks have had problems. Not many but enough to worry some people.

Originally Posted by MSG Glenn

I'd say the .40 cal is a good round. Fits nicely between 9MM & .45 cal. With .45s if you want a high capacity mag the grips can get a little too wide for those with small hands.

LT Papachop's suggestion of the M&P 40 is a very good one but in my opinion the Army has to get away from Berrettas & get something reliable made in the USA. Even an M&P 45 would be a good choice. Many PDs are switching from the Austrian Glocks to M&Ps & so far I've heard nothing bad about them. Some of the newer models of Glocks have had problems. Not many but enough to worry some people.

Yea, I heard about the polymer mag bending on the new Glocks causing jams... Not sure about the M&P 40's Top for two reasons. You need a tool to strip the weapon which is not "soldier proof" and does break, not to mention easily lost (per the Soldier proof point), and secondly the safety is in the trigger. Not a show stopper on the safety as I believe S&W have outside safety versions of the M&P40. I think its a go for LE but for deployed soldiers, it would be an issue IMHO... Im gonna say that even the famous Sigs & Glocks are not perfect so S&W is not alone there, but at the same time, if I was purchasing for the US Army, I would want a gun that the toughest, roughest and most active US soldier could not break.. I honestly have yet to see one that truly fits that bill..

On final point, if I was living in the US, an M&P 40 for its price would be on my personal shopping short list for personal firearm purchases but for military application, I just cant see it as a forerunner for a military competition in its current format.. That said, I do like the .40 round though, I was a 9mm fan for years but now see the charms of a .40 especially when dropping bad guys and not paper targets.. The extra punch in the round is worth it..

One other thought for service pistol is the UPS .45.. its a fine weapon with good access for stripping and assembling, a 12 round mag and some ambidextrous features like the mag release catch under the trigger guard which is handy for lefties. Like the rest, its got some draw backs in size making it a difficult weapon for small handed firers but its buffeted recoil spring makes it a softer recoil upon fire for .45 acp rounds. I think theres a market for a firearms manufacturer to produce a weapon that doesn't jam, fires accurately and has well laid out functionality on the weapon for easy access to the firer.... Many have many of the boxes ticked in my view, but none have them all..

Glock pretty much cleared up the flexing problem on their polymer mags by adding stainless steel stiffeners in them.

Originally Posted by MSG Glenn

Glock pretty much cleared up the flexing problem on their polymer mags by adding stainless steel stiffeners in them.

Thats Cool Top!!.. Glock and USP went polymer at the same time but its like everything else, its never perfect the first time round.. lol.. Sometimes second and third time trys are not much better, but Glock have turned out some decent firearms so it doesn't surprise me the fix came for it..