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Thread: Springfield XD - Sub Compact

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    Senior Member Exo1's Avatar
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    Default Springfield XD - Sub Compact

    I was reading a Guns & Ammo article on the Springfield XD sub compact gun as follows

    Compact Handgun Reviews - Guns & Ammo

    I then had a look at triple taps U Tube review of the weapon;

    XD Sub Compact Pistol Review and Test Fire - US Triple Tap - YouTube

    Whilst I can say that it appears to be a very accurate, durable and sexy weapon, is the age of external safeties coming to an end? Any variance in trigger design in the sub compact range that would make sense? The XD looks like a US version of the Walter PPK from a functional perspective and that is very cool... HOWEVER, in a stress position when retrieving your sub compact likely from inside your belt, does the internal trigger safety not present an issue?.. Or should I can it and IF I ever get to buy one, drill with it like any other weapon playing to its strengths and compensating for its weaknesses?

    What do you think of the above and the weapon?..
    Tenants of Bushido;

    ‘We should never obsess about if we are going to die, but instead focus on how we live as those whom live an honorable life will always die a glorious death.’

    Rectitude (義): Courage (勇氣): Benevolence (仁): Respect (禮 ): Honesty (誠): Honour (名誉): Loyalty (忠義)

    ...ergo veneratio est vires.

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    Moderator MSG Glenn's Avatar
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    With striker fired pistols safeties aren't necessary, Exo. If I'm not mistaken I think XDs have a grip safety. I have a friend that has an XDS in .45 cal & he loves it although initially he had some trouble with it & had to send it back for repair. I believe it was the extractor. Expended brass was flying almost straight back into his face most times. Most if not all striker fired guns are available with a safety as well as a magazine safety where the gun won't fire with the mag removed. Some states require it but the police are still being issued safety-free weapons. Some of the guns with safeties installed have had problems with an extremely stiff lever & in some cases they froze in the safe position rendering the firearm impossible to shoot. A piece of dirt might also cause that. This has been noted in some Glocks, M&Ps & Springfield Arms guns as well as others.

    In every gun safety classes I've heard about there's a lot of holstering & unholstering exercises. The trigger finger is always placed along the slide & never on the trigger until you've acquired your target & are ready to shoot & while drawing the finger is placed along the side of the holster so when the gun is fully withdrawn the trigger finger is along the slide. Triggers on striker fired guns are two stage. The finger has to be correctly placed on the trigger. These types of guns can be dropped on hard surfaces at height & not accidently discharged.

    If I was required to own a striker fired gun with a safety I wouldn't use it & there isn't a person I know that would.

    From everything I've read there are no more accidental discharges from striker fired than on guns with safeties installed. The potential problem can arise with Serpa-type holsters where there's a button on the holster where the trigger is located to retain the gun. By pushing that button when drawing the finger can slide inside the trigger guard if done wrong. Those type of holsters are usually banned at ranges & many police departments prohibit their officers from using them even on their off duty weapon.
    Last edited by MSG Glenn; 08-28-2013 at 05:46 AM.
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    Senior Member Exo1's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback Top... interesting stuff.. I guess its a case of what works works!!.. The two stage trigger was in a browning I fired in the 90s and I hated it... I guess the LT standing over my shoulder looking for another bullseye to be blown out at 25 yards didn't help either... lol... good times!!.... I guess the tech has moved on.. but apparently, not so much with some makes and models.. lol!!...
    Tenants of Bushido;

    ‘We should never obsess about if we are going to die, but instead focus on how we live as those whom live an honorable life will always die a glorious death.’

    Rectitude (義): Courage (勇氣): Benevolence (仁): Respect (禮 ): Honesty (誠): Honour (名誉): Loyalty (忠義)

    ...ergo veneratio est vires.

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    I shot some 2 stage triggers in striker-fired guns a while back before I was even interested in buying one. I wasn't even aware they were 2 stage until I looked at the trigger & questioned why it was hinged or in the case of a Glock why there seemed to be two of them. The pull felt the same as any other trigger. It wasn't until I had to buy a pistol for my job that I researched the whys of it. It so happened that Glock 21, 22 & 23 were on the list of accepted weapons & a lot cheaper than a Sig. I hadn't even heard of M&P then so they must have been fairly new. I'm sure they're on the list now as many police departments have made the switch from Glock.
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    Interesting stuff Top!... What do you think of these apex triggers?... The review from Gun Nerds TV (lol) mentioned it as an alternative...

    Smith & Wesson M&P .40 Review - YouTube
    Tenants of Bushido;

    ‘We should never obsess about if we are going to die, but instead focus on how we live as those whom live an honorable life will always die a glorious death.’

    Rectitude (義): Courage (勇氣): Benevolence (仁): Respect (禮 ): Honesty (誠): Honour (名誉): Loyalty (忠義)

    ...ergo veneratio est vires.

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    I've heard nothing but good things about Apex triggers, Exo. Some guns tend to have gritty triggers & some have a heavy trigger pull & some have both. The Apex cures both. For concealed carry use the Duty/Carry Apex is recommended as it isn't a light trigger pull - about 5.5 lbs. It's designed to give an audible & tactile trigger reset, more than most factory models but doesn't take the pull down too much. It also is a lot smoother than the factory original.

    My M&P 40C has a fairly good trigger compared to what they had up to the end of last year. It's a bit gritty & the reset isn't real loud but it's there & you can feel it but not pronounced. To tell the truth I never go with the reset anyhow & never take note of it when shooting. The grittiness is supposed to get much better with use & some say that a couple of hundred dry fires will help along with actually shooting it a lot. It's not a big deal for defensive carry but competitors might want something better. If it becomes a problem I'll consider the Apex but I doubt if I'll go that route. I really don't want a lighter trigger.

    If you ever have to send the gun back for warranty repair work you'd have to change it out to the factory original. S&W & others will take it out, install their own trigger assembly, charge you for the work & not send the Apex back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Glenn View Post
    I've heard nothing but good things about Apex triggers, Exo. Some guns tend to have gritty triggers & some have a heavy trigger pull & some have both. The Apex cures both. For concealed carry use the Duty/Carry Apex is recommended as it isn't a light trigger pull - about 5.5 lbs. It's designed to give an audible & tactile trigger reset, more than most factory models but doesn't take the pull down too much. It also is a lot smoother than the factory original.

    My M&P 40C has a fairly good trigger compared to what they had up to the end of last year. It's a bit gritty & the reset isn't real loud but it's there & you can feel it but not pronounced. To tell the truth I never go with the reset anyhow & never take note of it when shooting. The grittiness is supposed to get much better with use & some say that a couple of hundred dry fires will help along with actually shooting it a lot. It's not a big deal for defensive carry but competitors might want something better. If it becomes a problem I'll consider the Apex but I doubt if I'll go that route. I really don't want a lighter trigger.

    If you ever have to send the gun back for warranty repair work you'd have to change it out to the factory original. S&W & others will take it out, install their own trigger assembly, charge you for the work & not send the Apex back.
    Thanks for the advise Top!!... 5.5lb trigger is a reasonably light pull on a smooth action... that said, a broken in factory trigger with a heavier pull is fine too as its about the operator, not the tool in his hand after all.. For me, if I got to conceal carry a firearm, I would be the best I could be in its use and thus it should not pose a problem certainly in self defence... only thing I could think of for an Apex trigger is a secondary weapon in a 25 yard plus offensive action... In such a case, cost would not be an issue as the weapon would be a work gun... and not a personal one..
    Tenants of Bushido;

    ‘We should never obsess about if we are going to die, but instead focus on how we live as those whom live an honorable life will always die a glorious death.’

    Rectitude (義): Courage (勇氣): Benevolence (仁): Respect (禮 ): Honesty (誠): Honour (名誉): Loyalty (忠義)

    ...ergo veneratio est vires.

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    I'd say 25' should be the maximum distance for self defense training. Of course everyone wants to know how accurate their firearm is at distance but most self defense situations will be at 21' max. Anything further & you might have a problem in court answering the question as to why you thought that a guy standing 75 yards away was a threat. If he's shooting at you that's another matter altogether.

    I personally practice at 21'. I can be dead accurate at that distance with the two to the heart & one to the head method. It's easy if you ride the recoil after the second shot. Basically a modified triple tap. With my present gun that will leave me 8 rounds in the magazine with the potential of dropping it & reloading with a full one, a drill I practice often in case of a second & third threat. The one thing I have to perfect is picking up the first mag in case I need those rounds, too. That's where carrying that 3rd mag comes in handy. I normally carry just one spare but with the three mags that came with the gun I'm thinking of getting a two mag holder. It would be a shame if I needed that 3rd & it was at home, lol. Of course that's only needed in a shoot-out situation. It would be hard to explain why you filled an incapacitated or dead opponent with 31 rounds, lol, even though the training states that you shoot until the threat is neutralized & add a few more to be certain. Try telling that to a lawyer.
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    Senior Member Exo1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Glenn View Post
    I'd say 25' should be the maximum distance for self defense training. Of course everyone wants to know how accurate their firearm is at distance but most self defense situations will be at 21' max. Anything further & you might have a problem in court answering the question as to why you thought that a guy standing 75 yards away was a threat. If he's shooting at you that's another matter altogether.

    I personally practice at 21'. I can be dead accurate at that distance with the two to the heart & one to the head method. It's easy if you ride the recoil after the second shot. Basically a modified triple tap. With my present gun that will leave me 8 rounds in the magazine with the potential of dropping it & reloading with a full one, a drill I practice often in case of a second & third threat. The one thing I have to perfect is picking up the first mag in case I need those rounds, too. That's where carrying that 3rd mag comes in handy. I normally carry just one spare but with the three mags that came with the gun I'm thinking of getting a two mag holder. It would be a shame if I needed that 3rd & it was at home, lol. Of course that's only needed in a shoot-out situation. It would be hard to explain why you filled an incapacitated or dead opponent with 31 rounds, lol, even though the training states that you shoot until the threat is neutralized & add a few more to be certain. Try telling that to a lawyer.
    I say a clip of former Navy guy knocking 2 foot targets down at 50 yards with a Sig P226.. it truly is an awesome handgun!!. and in the right hands, a true game changer..

    Why the Navy SEALS use the SIG Sauer P226 Pistol. - YouTube

    You are right about 20 feet.. anything more in self defence is unlikely and if you are being engaged at outer distances, the question as to why you didn't withdraw is a good one both tactically and legally speaking! It is self defence after all.. lol.. I guess one could paraphrase and call such engagements, self offence!!. lol...

    Interesting shooting pattern.. we were thought to initially go double tap into centre body mass then move upto to the head until he drops... policy changed and then it became shoot below the belt... lol.. Crown Jewels it is then!!!.. and I guess one round would make anybody drop!!.. lol.

    I would advise against a second spare mag on carry Top.. it hands any lawyer an argument that you were premeditated in your carry actions with the second spare mag and went looking for trouble via a fire fight.. in the fog of these things, BSing criminals will use any angle to get out of their dues.. and sue you if they can.. Also, most civilian fire fights are 5-8 rounds long... in trained hands that can go down to 2 to 3 rounds.... Carrying the extra mag is a good idea, but two mags can get you tagged as excessive and premeditated in what ever incident you might get caught up in..
    Tenants of Bushido;

    ‘We should never obsess about if we are going to die, but instead focus on how we live as those whom live an honorable life will always die a glorious death.’

    Rectitude (義): Courage (勇氣): Benevolence (仁): Respect (禮 ): Honesty (誠): Honour (名誉): Loyalty (忠義)

    ...ergo veneratio est vires.

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    Most concealed carriers carry at least one extra mag. It's not because they want or feel they need the firepower but it's because of a possible mag failure. Mags will fail before a good firearm will. It's usually a broken spring or a fail to feed problem.

    I just got the word on a gun site that XDS pistols have been recalled. There have been incidents where some have double shots with one pull of the trigger & some have discharged all by themselves. S&W's Shield has a safety warning. Something to do with the part of the trigger that blocks the sear until it's pulled. The trigger is in two parts & the pin from one of the parts is coming out on some of them. A simple one minute check determines if the gun is ok.
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    I was a Soldier. I am a Soldier. I will always be a Soldier.

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