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Thread: Springfield XD - Sub Compact

  1. #11
    Senior Member Exo1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Glenn View Post
    Most concealed carriers carry at least one extra mag. It's not because they want or feel they need the firepower but it's because of a possible mag failure. Mags will fail before a good firearm will. It's usually a broken spring or a fail to feed problem.

    I just got the word on a gun site that XDS pistols have been recalled. There have been incidents where some have double shots with one pull of the trigger & some have discharged all by themselves. S&W's Shield has a safety warning. Something to do with the part of the trigger that blocks the sear until it's pulled. The trigger is in two parts & the pin from one of the parts is coming out on some of them. A simple one minute check determines if the gun is ok.
    Top.. I hear that!!.. I would carry an extra mag on conceal carry also... but not any more..

    Zoinks!!.. I guess XD stands for Xtremely Dissapointing!!. Ah well, as long as there were no accidents!!.. Lets hope they get their act together!!.. NO firearm should be anything less then perfect leaving the manufacturer... its even worse with compacts and sub compacts... they go off, and something is gonna get hurt... in conceal carry, it will most likely be the unsuspecting owner.....
    Tenants of Bushido;

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  • #12
    Moderator MSG Glenn's Avatar
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    Everyone is holding their breath to see if Glock is the next one to have safety issues, lol. At least M&Ps didn't have a dangerous issue with the Shield & there are very few of them that are defective. Stores will check them before the sale & so far many gun stores have noticed no problem in their shipment. I suspect it was just a small batch of them.

    Quality control is a big problem these days. Manufacturers are leaving that to the customer with the thought in mind that the gun will be sent back & fixed on a case by case basis. Guys have been sending their M&Ps back for very simple problems like a slightly gritty trigger & then getting them back in perfect condition with new parts all hand polished & sometime they'll even send an extra magazine along with it for their trouble. With the severe magazine shortage I don't think that will happen anytime soon. That shortage put my plans of getting a 9MM barrel & a couple of 9MM mags for my compact. I'm still thinking of getting a .357SIG barrel. That round uses the same mag as .40 cal does. Many have done that because of the ammo shortage. They can usually find ammo for one or the other so they can continue to shoot. Ideally one should have the .40 cal along with 9MM & .357SIG. Each has their advantages for self defense & usually 9MM is a little cheaper. With a +P hollow point round you have a formidable self defense setup with a couple of extra per mag.
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  • #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Glenn View Post
    Everyone is holding their breath to see if Glock is the next one to have safety issues, lol. At least M&Ps didn't have a dangerous issue with the Shield & there are very few of them that are defective. Stores will check them before the sale & so far many gun stores have noticed no problem in their shipment. I suspect it was just a small batch of them.

    Quality control is a big problem these days. Manufacturers are leaving that to the customer with the thought in mind that the gun will be sent back & fixed on a case by case basis. Guys have been sending their M&Ps back for very simple problems like a slightly gritty trigger & then getting them back in perfect condition with new parts all hand polished & sometime they'll even send an extra magazine along with it for their trouble. With the severe magazine shortage I don't think that will happen anytime soon. That shortage put my plans of getting a 9MM barrel & a couple of 9MM mags for my compact. I'm still thinking of getting a .357SIG barrel. That round uses the same mag as .40 cal does. Many have done that because of the ammo shortage. They can usually find ammo for one or the other so they can continue to shoot. Ideally one should have the .40 cal along with 9MM & .357SIG. Each has their advantages for self defense & usually 9MM is a little cheaper. With a +P hollow point round you have a formidable self defense setup with a couple of extra per mag.
    Hey bro.. sounds like some are taking lazy man street looking for the easy way out, theres no excuse for bad quality especially when you think of what can go wrong.. I guess legal exposure is not what it used to be... lol.. You would think the price point they sell at would leave plenty of margin to shore up any QC issues..

    Well, lets hope no misfires happen with people getting hurt by it firing or not firing when supposed to... 357 is a good round but I always thought it expensive.. but maybe Im wrong.. Ive heard nothing about panic buying these days, so maybe 9mm will become more stocked... what will be interesting will be if the shortages continue artificially.. its a crime to manipulate markets to your own gain... This year, JP Morgan got slapped by the DOJ with a fine for manipulating the Aluminium Market via their warehousing business and from what Ive heard, the DOJ is not done with them just yet... The to be honest pitiful fear stirring and over-reaction of the gun world to the failed attempt at gun regulation has given an unethical business or set of unethical businesses the opportunity to manipulate Ammo supply prices and profiteer from it by holding back on certain Ammo types.. If the panic has truly died down, it will be a test to see if there is a relative timeframe where ammo supply catches up with demand (assuming its down again and no more eruptions happen to panic the villagers.. LOL..).. At the end of the day, America is a gun culture nation and if a guy wants to kick it at the range with his buddies on a Saturday afternoon, then he should not have to pay artificially high prices for ammo!
    Tenants of Bushido;

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    Moderator MSG Glenn's Avatar
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    With the Department of Homeland Security buying 1.8 billion rounds of various ammo it's no wonder there's a shortage. At first that figure was debunked but it's been verified many times by trustworthy sources. DHS claims it's needed for training. Some say it's just another form of gun control by the government. Even the Military has trouble getting enough ammo.

    As a rule .357SIG is less likely to be on the shelves of gun stores in as great a quantity as more popular calibers in the past but the last time I checked that's all that was there. Sure - it was only a few boxes but it was there. One of our suburban police departments use .357SIG in Glocks. The few officers that I talked to when I worked there really liked it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Glenn View Post
    With the Department of Homeland Security buying 1.8 billion rounds of various ammo it's no wonder there's a shortage. At first that figure was debunked but it's been verified many times by trustworthy sources. DHS claims it's needed for training. Some say it's just another form of gun control by the government. Even the Military has trouble getting enough ammo.

    As a rule .357SIG is less likely to be on the shelves of gun stores in as great a quantity as more popular calibers in the past but the last time I checked that's all that was there. Sure - it was only a few boxes but it was there. One of our suburban police departments use .357SIG in Glocks. The few officers that I talked to when I worked there really liked it.
    I heard about that also.. The rumours range from the logical to the outright ridiculous.. That said, its being over a year since the word was on the street and IF that is behind the ammo shortage, then the firearms (ammo) companies will have had enough time to replenish its supply chain.... personally I find it hard to believe such a large order would be a fulfilment order with the 1.8 billion rounds up front.. If it is, then it would in theory explain a supply chain depletion.. but I still think its unlikely... thinking with my business hat on, the companies would get an order they cannot fulfil without depleting their supply chain... in such a case, you would contact your big client (DHS) and get "ramp up" time to fulfil the order where you ramp up production of ammo to a point where supply chain is not depleted and/or get a non fulfilment order where you can ship in stages splitting the order up over an agreed time frame... Ive heard those rumours also but find it hard to believe its a "Suuree... 1.8 billion rounds on the way.." scenario where the average Joe and associated dealers nationwide are left swinging in the wind... One other point, how did this alleged DHS order coincide with the gun regulation debate where the NRA et others are crying "Ohhhh they will take your guns, your rights, your life..." mantra scaring decent law abiding gun owners into buying all they can see and then the DHS becomes the patzy and mass orderer of 1.8 billion 9mm rounds with new theories about them being unofficial gun control measures?? I have heard the stories also Top and honestly smell dirty politics from the aroma of the very words spoken...

    Heres my view on it based on deduction and logic as I see it.. The President was appalled and shocked by the deaths of those little ones in CT by the mass shooter and son of the doomsday prepper nutjob of a teacher... He felt like 90% of all Americans the moral obligation and the need to act and fix the failures that saw so many little ones sent to their untimely deaths... The Left wing extremist factions of the Democrats saw an opportunity to gain some traction, power and leverage on an issue they have lost all perspective on which is gun regulation and started to input more unacceptable and to be honest stupid clauses into the proposed bill such as mag size and AR bans... ignoring what 90% of Americans want (proper background checks on guns and ammo), they went to house with a bill that equally extreme right wing factions of the Republican and Tea Party movement went nuts over... so the old hornets nest is poked again and the gloves come off with noone remembering why they are debating a regulation on gun regulation in the first place.. The pro and anti gun scare mongering went through the roof with gun owners being victimised in the NE and paranoid everywhere else.. HOW CAN THIS BE HELPFUL??... The answer is obviously its not.. so behind the NRA is the gun manufacturers which are lobbying to protect their business as they see it... somewhat understandable but I unreservedly condemn the scare mongering of Joe Public!!... its dirty and reprehensible... and also, who's lobbying to "destroy" the gun industry and culture as they see it??.. If I knew who they were, I would have the same condemnation for them also... so who really are these leftist factions hiding behind the apparent Democratic veil??... A valid question don't you think?... Anyway, back to the DHS order... I think the order is at best partially true and I cannot believe is such a political crises the DHS would replenish its ammo stores in one fowl swoop! Only an idiot would do that and/or allow that and the DHS are not stupid!! Its politics man.. Its the only logical conclusion I can see in that whole mess... and its a great veil to be "behind on orders" as I mentioned above... If JP Morgan can set aside ethics and screw Aluminium customers by pushing out orders to 6 months when they can fulfill them in 90 days to push up Aluminium commodities, then manufacturing practices of Gun Companies in theory can too... Lets hope the don't and timely restoration of supply chain at this point will be proof positive that they have not..
    Tenants of Bushido;

    ‘We should never obsess about if we are going to die, but instead focus on how we live as those whom live an honorable life will always die a glorious death.’

    Rectitude (義): Courage (勇氣): Benevolence (仁): Respect (禮 ): Honesty (誠): Honour (名誉): Loyalty (忠義)

    ...ergo veneratio est vires.

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    Moderator MSG Glenn's Avatar
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    Except all those anti-gun proposals were unconstitutional. It's very clear in our Constitution that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed upon. And - since well over 90% of gun crimes are committed by those who can't legally possess a firearm like felons, mental deficients, those under 21 years of age, illegal aliens, any other restrictions would only hurt the honest law abiding citizen. It would also cost we good citizens money. We found, at least in this country, that every time the government, especially the federal government gets their hands involved in anything there's always a huge bureaucracy that is formed, all getting huge salaries. Many states have their own background checks & in Wisconsin that costs each gun buyer $13 - $20 or so. It cost me $13 to have a background check for my concealed carry license & another $18 plus a 48 hour wait when I purchased my M&P. I had already waited over 8 months for it so the "cooling off" period was well past had I been buying a gun with a hot head wanting to kill someone for dissing me. That check is only good for 30 days. Felons, teenagers, drug dealers, etc., get no background checks whatsoever. They can buy or rent guns off the street the same way they get their drugs & look how many laws we have for that. It hasn't helped one iota. I'm not against background checks but according to our Constitution it's an infringement of my Second Amendment rights & therefore illegal. That's all the NRA is saying. If existing gun laws are enforced that would do a lot more good than picking on honest citizens who want to buy a gun for sport or protection. We have "straw purchasers". Those are people who have no police record & can pass a background check. They buy a gun & sell it to a felon & make a profit on it . My city alone had 60 cases of those last year. Out of those only 2 were prosecuted. But I have to pay for a background check & wait 48 hours. My son arrested a minor with a firearm a few weeks ago. Before his shift was up the gun-toting minor was back on the street. But I have to pay for a background check & wait 48 hours. In a nutshell any new laws against owning a gun would do no good at all. Gun confiscation would only affect law abiding citizens. We have Chicago with the toughest gun laws in the nation with the highest gun crimes in the nation. We can see how well that works. Now they want to do the same thing to the entire US. We can guess how well that works & be right. The only armed people would be the bad guys. I can't see any new laws doing any more good than our myriad drug laws. Those who want those laws are totally ignorant about firearms. "Assault rifles"? Scary looking so let's ban them when a legal hunting rifle can do the same exact damage but hey aren't black with a handgrip. Many of the antis believe that every AR15 can shoot like an M16 - fully automatic & all. (Auto guns are already illegal so by definition you're breaking the law if you have one unless licensed to do so & pay a huge price for that license). It's out of ignorance that many of the proposed laws are based on. Our Vice President Biden said on national TV that he instructed his wife to go on the veranda & let both barrels of a double barrel shotgun shoot up into the air when threatened. He said that would be a deterrent to someone breaking in & all she would need. Well someone did just that. They got fined for firing a firearm in the city, lol. Maybe it's because she didn't have a fancy house with a veranda. Who in their right mind would use up all their ammo when their life was threatened? Up in the air? In a city where the shot has to come down somewhere? These are the same types of people who want to make laws. Laws made from ignorance are bad laws.

    DHS is buying the ammo over a period of time. Those ammo manufacturers who took the contract are in a big bind. Some had to open new facilities, put extra shifts on & are losing regular buyers like hunters & police departments. Those who didn't bite are building new facilities, putting extra shifts on & are trying to fill the void. The cost of ammo is skyrocketing. A few of those manufacturers are trying to get out of the contract. They now see it for what it is. Ammo sellers are taking advantage of that so even when they get a good price they still sell at the highest price. Some gun owners are hoarding & buying ammo even when they have plenty already. I wish I would have done that so I'd have enough to fully test my new M&P. I've barely scratched the surface & won't feel entirely comfortable until I put at least another 300 rounds through it. If the government's plan was to restrict ammo sales in place of gun control laws it's working. As I heard it the ranges the DHS uses aren't any busier than they were a year ago. What's all the ammo for? The tinfoil hat people are worried that it's for the takeover of the country. I could be easily persuaded about that & I don't have a tinfoil hat nor am I paranoid. When a civilian agency has fewer people but more ammo than our Military it gives me reason to wonder about the why of it. That coupled with the spying & collecting on info on our citizens gives me some reason to worry especially with the likes of George Soros involved. And now all the talk about taking guns away from honest citizens. I don't believe for a minute that the deaths of those poor children had anything to do with it & polls have proved that the"90% of the people" was fabricated. It was no where near that & those polls were in extremely liberal democratic areas of the country very skewed. Chicago has many more murders by guns, many of them innocent children but where is the hue & cry about that? And they have total gun control.
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    Senior Member Exo1's Avatar
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    Top, like I said many times before, the concept of mass firearms confiscation is a lie sold by the NRA... no government in their right mind would do that.. its outrageous that they even suggest it... firearms taken from criminals and mentally unstable is a different story that Im sure fits in to some factitious "proof" by them.... From what I can see, when you are dealing with the NRA, you are dealing with an aggressive movement that pushes the interests of the manufacturers not the gun owners whom are members or non members yet are getting more BS misinformation from the NRA, the Lefties and any other egotistical jackass that wants a little attention..

    Background checks to see if you are criminal or mentally unstable is not an infringement of your 2nd amendment rights... The Feds failed to get that message through the political maelstrom and it burned under the weight of egotistical NRA misinformation and lefty arrogance with AR Bans, Mag capping and other gun control nonsense (as opposed to gun regulation sense). The concept of getting a Federal firearm background check on ALL firearm and ammo sales is sound ONCE it doesnt duplicate effective state background checks. Anything else is down to the state in my view... the gun control preference of California and New York should not be forced on the gun liberal state of Montana or Texas... The failure of the Obama administration to see this in their intial approach post Sandy Hill is why the extreme left and right are now more powerful then ever and the rattle and hum of gun control is being used to milk the gun owner of every last dime in gun and ammo purchase.. IMHO

    What do do now? I think there is plenty of blame to go around and the dirty politics needs to stop! Practically, I think the Feds best move is to get a new gun bill that focuses on background checks and sets out what constitutes of a proper but "basic" background check that forces all states to comply... the quid pro quo is the State then decides what gun control measures they want to add onto it. If left at the basic structure/process, it would mean every legal gun buyer would have being processed through the system and found to be of sound mind and not a criminal... This would mean dropping a good but unworkable concept of background checks on ammo but it would shore up private sales and gun fair background checks... This way carry permits can be more easily transferrable between states due to a federally endorsed state regulation mechanism that looks for the same things in criminality and mental health.. The alternate approach is to do nothing or continue with dirty politics whilst Gun Manufacturers continue to make a mint and apparently quality is at risk and the customer suffer.. I have no problem with a manufacturer earning an honest buck but it has to be done in a fair way and without the aid perceived or otherwise of dirty politics...

    Will America be safer place? When you consider a better track and trace system for firearm sales, it will increase LE crime resolution efficacy, stem STRAW purchases and allow for a better flow of law abiding gun owners between states in my view.. It will NOT stop illegal gun running nor will it dramatically reduce the already large amount of guns on the street.. However, over time... and into the future the regulation would slowly see better detection and thus deterrent, more guns coming off the streets and less going on (illegally) and a new balance of good guys with guns and bad guys with guns will take place... will America be safer for it... I think so, but it will be a marginal improvement... America needs a much more integrated and multi functional approach to its problems to be "safer"... I think America will be better for the effort though cos the ability for things to slide severely the way things are is huge and the simple changes to the law with big changes to process would shore up this risk for future Americans whom can embrace their gun culture as a nation.. not as a Sub Group..
    Tenants of Bushido;

    ‘We should never obsess about if we are going to die, but instead focus on how we live as those whom live an honorable life will always die a glorious death.’

    Rectitude (義): Courage (勇氣): Benevolence (仁): Respect (禮 ): Honesty (誠): Honour (名誉): Loyalty (忠義)

    ...ergo veneratio est vires.

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    Moderator MSG Glenn's Avatar
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    Background checks for the mentally unstable are very hard to get accomplished if that mental case hasn't seen a shrink. Many of our mass shooters have never been officially diagnosed & even their family can't make them see a head doc. On our application for a CC license one of the questions asks if you were ever diagnosed as a mental deficient. Answer '"No" & you're good to go unless a court of law has determined that you indeed are. Then you've committed a felony but then you can get off because you're mentally unsound. You might have to go to the nuthouse instead of jail, though.

    Our main problem is that the courts are too lenient. Those judges who have to be voted in office & are very liberal keep getting voted in office & are soft on crime. They keep getting voted in by liberals who then blame the guns & not the criminal. So he gets another felony but is left back out on the streets. He goes to his local drug dealer buys his drugs & rents or buys a gun so he can rob someone so he can pay for his next supply of drugs. Some while back we had a shooting by a guy who had gotten out of jail that day with a reduced sentence. A squad was driving past & they gave chase on foot. They captured the guy who wound up dying because he had a disease & his run was too much for him. The cops performed CPR until the paramedics came but there was nothing they could do. The judge & court system was blamed, right? Wrong. The COPS were blamed. One of them is a friend in our judo club & a nicer, kinder guy that you'd ever meet.. He & his 2 partners were originally cleared when the medical examiner released the cause of death. But then the family bitched & moaned & there were demonstrations so the politically correct liberal politicians forced a court hearing with jury & everything. They were determined to be innocent by the jury. That wasn't good enough. Then the Feds had to get involved but the case was eventually dropped after almost a year. The anti-gun crowd put up a howl. It was all the fault of the gun without realizing or admitting that the dead crook's first offense was by a knife. Now how could a background check have prevented that? This goes on constantly. My son will get a records check for traffic violations & find the guy has a record as long as your arm but he's still on the street. Sometimes in his spare time he'll check the penalties for the offenses the guy committed. If even half the penalties was given the guy should be in prison for 30 more years. I say if you commit a crime with a weapon there should be a mandatory long sentence, put down by law that even a judge can't supercede. Same with drug distribution. My son catches a guy selling crack while carrying a gun & he's back on the street the next day. Our liberal police chief pats them on the back for getting a gun off the street but says nothing about the kilo they confiscated.
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  • #19
    Senior Member Exo1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Glenn View Post
    Background checks for the mentally unstable are very hard to get accomplished if that mental case hasn't seen a shrink. Many of our mass shooters have never been officially diagnosed & even their family can't make them see a head doc. On our application for a CC license one of the questions asks if you were ever diagnosed as a mental deficient. Answer '"No" & you're good to go unless a court of law has determined that you indeed are. Then you've committed a felony but then you can get off because you're mentally unsound. You might have to go to the nuthouse instead of jail, though.
    Top, you raise a good point on the current process which would not catch a cold, never mind the mentally unstable... What I am proposing is a small change in the law but a much larger change in the process both applicant facing and also back office... What I would see would be a section on mental health... the shrinks have good questionnaires these days to see if you suffer from mental health conditions like pyschcopy, depression et others.... it could be adapted/merged for use on a gun licence application regardless of whether or not you have being prior diagnosed with a mental illness. It gives a high probability that something is wrong warranting follow up by a mental health professional. I would a Part A and B of the mental health section with Part A on the voluntary disclosure and Part B with the questionnaire and warning that to lie on any of it is a felony. I would see the hits being referred to a mental health professional for a limited fee... Dr. Phil charging 600 bucks an hour wont cut it.. LOL..

    Would it catch all, no but it would catch the majority of whats getting through and thats a good place to be... After all, we live in a relative world..

    The Police Chief doesn't sound like his focused... LOL... illegal gun of the streets is good, a kilo of Coke off the streets is better!!.. LOL... How many lives saved with the latter then the former...

    Getting the right foundation stone under gun regulation is going to cost but I believe the longer term benefits will far out way any immediate cost and change discomfort..
    Tenants of Bushido;

    ‘We should never obsess about if we are going to die, but instead focus on how we live as those whom live an honorable life will always die a glorious death.’

    Rectitude (義): Courage (勇氣): Benevolence (仁): Respect (禮 ): Honesty (誠): Honour (名誉): Loyalty (忠義)

    ...ergo veneratio est vires.

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    Senior Member StayFrosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exo1 View Post
    Top, like I said many times before, the concept of mass firearms confiscation is a lie sold by the NRA... no government in their right mind would do that.. its outrageous that they even suggest it...
    They don't need to... they're going to proceed as NY has: by creep. First we make the old AWB requirements take effect at the state level (banning all "evil" rifles and mags over ten rounds). After all, who needs an "assault weapon" (NB: that term is not at all doctrinal, it was coined by the Brady Bunch to vilify certain firearms). Sounds reasonable, right? Now we just... say... ban all 8+ round magazines. I mean, why do you need 8 rounds? Then we move on to say... well... five? Oh and we're going to start implementing background checks and registries. So when they ban anything over five rounds and they know you have a glock 17... and no five round magazine exists for that pistol. Hmm...

    They're not going to ban anything en masse. They're going to continually and slowly advance the line of legislation, waiting for the last round of bans to become "reasonable" before moving on, and utilizing any crime, any tragedy as a sounding platform. Several confessed during the "conversation" after Newton that "it's not about preventing crime at all".

    I may be a conspiracy nut, and I'll admit that some parts of this train may be driven by well-meaning individuals, but there is not a doubt in my mind that there are many people in the Anti-2A lobby (some of them holding public office), whose vision of the future is that even police access to firearms is limited, and more importantly to them, anyone who even thinks about possessing one is immediately jailed and silenced.

    BTW, full-auto is fully legal... so long as you have a Class III license (and your state laws permit). Just one more misconception perpetuated by the Brady Campaign with the assistance of Hollywood.

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