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    Default The US Politics

    Hello.

    I'm not sure if you Americans really believes in "freedom of speech", and if i can find it here on this forum (by not seeing this post removed the next day by the forums administrator).

    As an Iraqi, who lived the war, I would like to discuss with you guys the US politics, and also the reason of the war against iraq.

    First off, i would like to ask, about what was the exact reason of the U.S. invasion of Iraq? for e.g. because Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction? (as bush claimed in the beginning).

    Thanks and i hope you Americans have the spirit of discussion. as we do.

    - Ahmad

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    Short Timer CWO Sharkey's Avatar
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    This forum is not about getting involved in political discussion (even though some posters write those type of views and some discussion is formed). This forum is about providing information and insight for people who are curious on joining the US Army.

    I had this discussion many times with my Iraqi interpreters and they understood many of the paradoxes that came into question.

    As I saw someone wrote on a newspaper website - You might not like Americans and what we stand for but we always stand up for those who are weak and if it was not for us; they will be a totally different composite of world order. Just think about that for a moment.
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    I do understand that this forum is not for political discussion, but since there is too many army members here, why don't we discuss this? I think it's a good opportunity to reveal some facts, Let's change the topic of this post, if this forum is about providing information and insight for people who are curious on joining the US Army, as you said, let us discuss about why people should join the US army? what is the point? lets talk about the last war that US army done against iraq.

    >>I had this discussion many times with my Iraqi interpreters and they understood many of the paradoxes that came into question.

    There may be no point to discuss such topics with Iraqi-interpreters, who work for the US army, and of course support and help them by translating their talks, and then take refuge in America and a green-card. and enjoy a good life there.

    >>You might not like Americans and what we stand for but we always stand up for those who are weak and if it was not for us; they will be a totally different composite of world order. Just think about that for a moment.

    You still did not answered my question. We still can't understand the reason of this war,

    >>but we always stand up for those who are weak

    How? more than half million people were killed in iraq by the US army and the Black-Water lately, and most of them were either woman's or kids, what about the womans that have been rapped by the US army?

    What about the crimes of Abu Ghraib prison that has been done by the US army? and other daily-crimes?

    Are you going to tell that its something normal, that it would be happen in any war?

    I am not sure how US always stand up for those who are weak, do you mean that the US army came to Iraq to achieve the freedom? then where is the freedom now? why we cant see?

    By opening all of the borders and allowing the terrorists organizations such as al qaida to do their job in iraq? by dropping the regime of iraq, and by robbing the security from our country?

    Do you know how many people die each day in iraq by terrorists? more than 40/per DAY.
    Do you know that iraq was one of the most-secured countries In the era of President Saddam Hussein?

    Is this the way how you stand up for those who are weak?

    As you are well-aware The current government in iraq that has been build by US, is one of the most corrupt governments in the world. And built on the basis of sectarian and which almost divided Iraq into sects and religions and minorities, and parties. More than 40 party now governs Iraq. Is this logical?

    And built on the basis of bribes, i went to renew my passport two days ago. and the manager refused to renew my passport until he charged me for $600 USD.

    US intentions different from what you claim.

    I'm expecting that you are going to remove or close this post, Arguing that this forum subject may be different from my topic subject. but as a chief, Who participated in this war. You are in charge to complete this discussion with me. and you have the option.

    - Ahmad

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    Do you know that iraq was one of the most-secured countries In the era of President Saddam Hussein?

    And how did a Sunni dictator in a Sunni minority country accomplish that?
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    Sassan Hussien was one of the most tyrannical and cruel dictators in history. I have been to his prisons and seen what he subjected human beings to in the name of what? Security? Bribery and corruption are historical facts of government in Arab countries. Look at Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Iraq, you can't change that overnight. As far as why we invaded, I am a Soldier not a politician, I don't make that decision. As far as Abu Ghuraib, that was done by individuals and they were dealt with just as with every other crime. Our punishment happen in courts so you don't always see the outcomes but they are there. Just because we don't drag them onto the streets and stone them to death doesn't meant they are not punished. I am appalled by the loss of both American and Iraqi lives in your country but based upon my experiences your countrymen are just as responsible for the casualties as we are. It's your country, don't let the terrorists use your houses and neighborhoods as safe houses. Don't stand by and complain in a forum of how crappy it is, do something about it. The lack of action by all iraqi's is why we are still there. John F. Kennedy said it best "Ask not what your Country can do for you but what you can do for your Country". What are you doing.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
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    The question I have to ask Ahmad is would you rather have Saddam still alive & in power?

    As for weapons of mass destruction Saddam himself assured us that he had some, he already had used them on his own people & the Iranians & he promised he would use them again. Condemned by his own words.

    An attack on Iraq was in accordance with the UN mandate. Cessation of hostilities during the Gulf War when we kicked the Iraqis out of Kuwait hinged solely on certain conditions. Saddam had to leave UN inspectors in at the time of their choosing & he had to observe the no fly zone. He didn't. He attacked Coalition aircraft that were enforcing that no fly zone. That negated all cease fire agreements so that war was reinstated. Remember - the Gulf War was never officially ended, just a cease fire was in place. The Coalition forces could have & should have gone right into Iraq at that time & continued the Gulf War until Iraqi military was totally destroyed. We & the rest of the Coalition were on a roll. It could have been done.

    I have seen what Saddam had done to Kuwait & the Kuwaiti people & at that time I was perfectly willing to go all the way to Baghdad insted of stopping at the Iraqi border. If the Iraqi people supported the Kuwait action then they got everything that was coming to them. No regrets here. You're speaking as a citizen of a hostile country that waged war & lost. Deal with it. At least there are some Iraqi people who are glad Saddam is gone. Tough shit that there's corruption in your country. Ask me if I really care. Deal with it. Vote the bastards out, something you couldn't do 8 years ago.
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    Short Timer CWO Sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Glenn View Post
    Vote the bastards out, something you couldn't do 8 years ago.
    Great end sentence and powerful.
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    >> And how did a Sunni dictator in a Sunni minority country accomplish that?

    Just because he was against US interests, does not really mean he was a "dictator", maybe from your point and your government point. but not really from Arabs point.

    Just like Che Guevara, the whole people of this world love him, seeing his pics on tshirts, etc., but Unfortunately, Americans still hate him, and still dont want to accept the fact that he was a hero.

    Regarding Saddam being a Sunni, that's something totally normal, every president have a region, lets say he was a Shiei, what is the difference? or even a Christian.

    The government in Saddam era was never and never based on region, but based on politic, Izzat Al Douri which was vice-president was a Christian, and there were a lot of leaders in the government who were Shieist.

    For your information, 60% of Iraq people are Shiea, and almost a half of them were active Baathists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert_Rat View Post
    Sassan Hussien was one of the most tyrannical and cruel dictators in history. I have been to his prisons and seen what he subjected human beings to in the name of what? Security? Bribery and corruption are historical facts of government in Arab countries. Look at Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Iraq, you can't change that overnight. As far as why we invaded, I am a Soldier not a politician, I don't make that decision. As far as Abu Ghuraib, that was done by individuals and they were dealt with just as with every other crime. Our punishment happen in courts so you don't always see the outcomes but they are there. Just because we don't drag them onto the streets and stone them to death doesn't meant they are not punished. I am appalled by the loss of both American and Iraqi lives in your country but based upon my experiences your countrymen are just as responsible for the casualties as we are. It's your country, don't let the terrorists use your houses and neighborhoods as safe houses. Don't stand by and complain in a forum of how crappy it is, do something about it. The lack of action by all iraqi's is why we are still there. John F. Kennedy said it best "Ask not what your Country can do for you but what you can do for your Country". What are you doing.
    >>Sassan Hussien was one of the most tyrannical and cruel dictators in history.

    Sure! from your point. why not?

    >>I have been to his prisons and seen what he subjected human beings to in the name of what? Security?

    Every action he did, was a reasonable reason behind it.

    Let me tell you, I been in iraq since i born, If he was killing the people without any reason, why i am still alive now? and also my family? he NEEDED to use such politics to protect Iraq. to save the security. just keep it in your mind.

    >>Bribery and corruption are historical facts of government in Arab countries. Look at Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Iraq, you can't change that overnight.

    Not really... Everything were fine in all Arabic countries, before the US interventions. that have been started starting from world war 2,

    Did you forget Jamal Abd Al Nasir, the president of Egypt? people still love him, How about President Saadat? and and and....

    Libya before Momaamar al Gadafi Was occupied by U.S. and the British and French forces, and has been liberated by Gadafi, by making popular revolt against the occupying forces.

    But unfortunately, the same countries are back again now, to occupy Libya again. Using different arguments and Methods.

    Unfortunately, i would like to admit that we Arabs have great ignorance. and it has been caused by US.

    Maktoob dot com the only and biggest Arabic community website for arabs has been purchased by Yahoo the US company for 4 Million dollar, and is now is publishing false politic news in favor of US, making the Arabs more and more ignorant and stupids.

    Al Jazeera, one of the biggest Arab news channels, has also been purchased by FOX News (the US Media and News Organization), and is doing the exact same thing.

    Al Arabia the other Channel news, which is one of the most biggest channel news, is also working in favor of US. making the people more and more stupids.

    I think the current war of US against Arabs is a Media war.

    >>you can't change that overnight

    We do not wanted any change, as said before, in era of Saddam Hussein, there was no any corruption and bribes, at least i were able to renew my passport without paying $600.

    >>As far as why we invaded, I am a Soldier not a politician, I don't make that decision.

    As a soldier you must first know why you are going to invade a country, and kill some people there.

    How come you joined this war, when you dont even know the exact reason of it? don't you care about the people that will be die, and will be killed by your weapon? or your point is just to be here, finish your job and take your money? i think that's the point. most of US soldiers are here without even knowing why they are here.

    >>As far as Abu Ghuraib, that was done by individuals and they were dealt with just as with every other crime.

    Excuse me? the whole forces that were taking care and managing the Abu Ghuraib prison were ALL individuals?

    Who take the responsibility of all of those crimes in Abu Ghuraib prison?

    If US can't control its forces and soldiers to avoid such crimes, better to not invade Iraq.

    All of those crimes was done by an approval from senior leaderships at the U.S. military.
    it was like an revenge of the Iraqi people.

    >>Our punishment happen in courts so you don't always see the outcomes but they are there. Just because we don't drag them onto the streets and stone them to death doesn't meant they are not punished.

    Sure, Good scenario. I congratulate you.

    >>I am appalled by the loss of both American and Iraqi lives in your country but based upon my experiences your countrymen are just as responsible for the casualties as we are.

    How? I lost my only brother and his family, just because he been too close to an american tank (with his car).

    US is the only responsible for every single thing is happening in Iraq.

    >>It's your country, don't let the terrorists use your houses and neighborhoods as safe houses. Don't stand by and complain in a forum of how crappy it is,

    They are not using our houses, their are using their own houses, they are being supported by US and Iran, and some other countries,

    US want that, to find a reason to stay in Iraq, to say that we are still here trying to make this country secure. as its un secured now by the terrorists.

    I bet US can clean all of those terrorists in less than a week (if wanted that).
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    >>do something about it.

    What do you want me to do? if the self government that you build for us is also supporting them?

    You are well-aware of this.

    >>John F. Kennedy said it best "Ask not what your Country can do for you but what you can do for your Country". What are you doing.

    I will do a lot, when your country allow me to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Glenn View Post
    The question I have to ask Ahmad is would you rather have Saddam still alive & in power?

    As for weapons of mass destruction Saddam himself assured us that he had some, he already had used them on his own people & the Iranians & he promised he would use them again. Condemned by his own words.

    An attack on Iraq was in accordance with the UN mandate. Cessation of hostilities during the Gulf War when we kicked the Iraqis out of Kuwait hinged solely on certain conditions. Saddam had to leave UN inspectors in at the time of their choosing & he had to observe the no fly zone. He didn't. He attacked Coalition aircraft that were enforcing that no fly zone. That negated all cease fire agreements so that war was reinstated. Remember - the Gulf War was never officially ended, just a cease fire was in place. The Coalition forces could have & should have gone right into Iraq at that time & continued the Gulf War until Iraqi military was totally destroyed. We & the rest of the Coalition were on a roll. It could have been done.

    I have seen what Saddam had done to Kuwait & the Kuwaiti people & at that time I was perfectly willing to go all the way to Baghdad insted of stopping at the Iraqi border. If the Iraqi people supported the Kuwait action then they got everything that was coming to them. No regrets here. You're speaking as a citizen of a hostile country that waged war & lost. Deal with it. At least there are some Iraqi people who are glad Saddam is gone. Tough shit that there's corruption in your country. Ask me if I really care. Deal with it. Vote the bastards out, something you couldn't do 8 years ago.
    >>The question I have to ask Ahmad is would you rather have Saddam still alive & in power?

    Yeah, i really wish that, he was a hero, we were secure, free, and we were living with our dignity.

    Saddam has a lot of bad things, but also a lot of good things. you are mentioning only his bad things.

    >>As for weapons of mass destruction Saddam himself assured us that he had some

    Are you talking about that tape? that has been "discovered" one year after the war? where saddam says that "WE DO HAVE weapons of mass destruction"? that tape was faked by CIA and everybody knew that.

    Where are the weapons of mass destruction now? why they still not found them?

    The War was just a vendetta between Saddam and Bush was to avenge Muslims, nothing more...

    Bush used "Crusades" term before starting the war (see Wikipedia to confirm) he said "This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while". excuse me? Crusades? is this the freedom you wondered to bring to iraq? that's really funny,

    Moreover, Donald Rumsfeld, (one of the most American corrupt politician) (also known to be a businessman) that also hijacked a lot of wealth from iraq. has also used Verses from the Bible book against the godless (muslims/iraqis), before starting the war. the FOX News has clearly stated that and showed all of the proofs. i still have its video on a CD, and if you would like i can upload it for you.

    What kind of freedom is this?

    >>he already had used them on his own people & the Iranians & he promised he would use them again. Condemned by his own words.

    You are wrong, He used Chemical weapons against Iran and Kurdish people, and everybody know this. he never owned weapons of mass destruction and not just UN, but also US never found it.

    He do have a right to start a war against Iran, Look what Iranians did to Iraq now? you will give him the right

    Regarding his own people, you mean the Kurdish, Yes, he started a war against Kurdish, because they were helping the iranian government, but allowing them entering to Iraq and helping them.

    Those are traitors, and should be die, in order to protect Iraq, and its people from Iranian influence.

    I would like also to make note that i don't meant all of the Kurdish people are traitors, no, Kurdish people are nice people, and we do love them, i do have Kurdish friends, and they are like my brothers.

    BTW, United states SUPPORTED Saddam on that war, you are well-aware of this man.

    >>An attack on Iraq was in accordance with the UN mandate.

    UN is an "organization" that build by US., stop these scenarios man...

    And what UN bringed to us? The Economic blockade that UN started on iraq, were lead us to Poverty and famine, more than 230,000 iraqi kids died without food, all because Saddam kicked an Kuwaiti ass.

    What is the fault of those kids? why they should die? why?

    We used to eat waste in those days. for what? is this human rights that UN and USs claim?

    What about the war that US started on Iraq for Kuwait? for US it was only to protect its own Interests (the Oil in Kuwait). Do you know how many kids and womans died on that war? whats their fault?

    the attacks against Iraq were 80% civil.

    >>Cessation of hostilities during the Gulf War when we kicked the Iraqis out of Kuwait hinged solely on certain conditions. Saddam had to leave UN inspectors in at the time of their choosing & he had to observe the no fly zone. He didn't. He attacked Coalition aircraft that were enforcing that no fly zone.
    That negated all cease fire agreements so that war was reinstated. Remember - the Gulf War was never officially ended, just a cease fire was in place. The Coalition forces could have & should have gone right into Iraq at that time & continued the Gulf War until Iraqi military was totally destroyed. We & the rest of the Coalition were on a roll. It could have been done.

    That's a lie, he never attacked the UN units, he worked with them.

    >>I have seen what Saddam had done to Kuwait & the Kuwaiti people & at that time I was perfectly willing to go all the way to Baghdad insted of stopping at the Iraqi border. If the Iraqi people supported the Kuwait action then they got everything that was coming to them. No regrets here.
    What he really done to Kuwait?

    Nobody died in Kuwait, only few people who stayed there, my father were there, in that war, he said that they found Kuwait free of people, exactly like a ghost town, once they entered there. All of its people went to Saudi country. Kuwait is an small country, even smaller than Baghdad city.

    There was a perfect reason behind that war. He do have right to attack Kuwait, in order to protect our country rights. just like US attacked us after that war, in order to protects its own interests (not rights) in Kuwait (the oil).

    >>You're speaking as a citizen of a hostile country that waged war & lost. Deal with it. At least there are some Iraqi people who are glad Saddam is gone. Tough shit that there's corruption in your country. Ask me if I really care. Deal with it. Vote the bastards out, something you couldn't do 8 years ago.

    Yeah there are people that are glad, your victims, Victims of ignorance, they are so happy.

    That "corruption" was created by US, by building a government that is weak, and built based on sectarianism, racism, religion, corruption and bribery. Why? to keep this country weak and rob the power from it and enjoy the oil.

    This country have more than 5,000 year history, and now every thing has been damaged.

    Museums have been all stolen. the 4,000 year history have been stolen. Banks have been stolen the wealth has been stolen. Everything has been destroyed, (see the attached pics).

    All of those golds have been sent to US.

    And where all of those stuffs in Museums went? you can find, watch and enjoy them in London, Paris, US, Museums.

    Thanks for the freedom.

    I am sorry to inform you that your own country is the biggest terrorist in the world who rob the other countries people rights, For the sake of its own people happiness.

    Do not fool yourself with such slogans, The cause of your happiness now is the unhappiness of someone else in iraq or the other countries that have been robbed.

    I hope the God Shows the right and prove Falsehood false. one day.

    - Ahmad

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    Short Timer CWO Sharkey's Avatar
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    Ok Ahmad, lets just say we agree to disagree. Our country does not find mass graves of our own people killed by our government ok.

    Again, thank you for your opinions and let us move on. Like a poster said, "I am just a soldier and do not get involved in the politics".
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